Summer Memories is recorded as a florabunda rose in Modern Rose database. Kordes from Germany bred Summer Memories and classified it as a shrub rose. How do you update Modern Roses database?
To change a rose classification in Modern Roses, the Breeder would need to send an email with the request. As all questions and comments, it would be reviewed by moderators of Modern Roses. The breeder is the âownerâ of classifying their roses and unless there is some material discrepancy their request would be honored.
To Diane,
We did more research on Summer Memories
We have sent details off to Kordes for action.
Mattock roses registered Summer Memories as a floribunda rose
Mattock was taken over in 2015
However the Summer Memories won an award as a shrub rose and this is recorded on the Modern Rose database.
Does that mean that the American Rose society makes no differentiation between a shrub rose and a floribunda rose.
In the UK Summer Memories is registered as an old English Rose and as a floribunda.
In Australia Treloars entered Summer Memories as a shrub rose in the Adelaide trial gardens.
Treloars sells Summer Memories as a shrub Rose.
The problem we have is that Summer Memories has been disqualified if entered as a shrub rose as Australia uses Modern Rose database as a the guide to rose classifications.
Cheers
John Keays
Hi John. Thank you for the follow up with Kordes on Summer Memories. We want Modern Roses to absolutely be accurate. I will try to dig deeper into the archives to see if I can confirm how we received the original information to add to the database, but what is most important is that we get it right as it stands today. On holiday for a few weeks and donât have access to the archives on vacation. Thanks much - Diane
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To Diane
Sue Keqys is the Rose Judge
Replies from Kordes
Cheers
John Keays
Computer Assistant
Hello Sue,
oh yes, rose classification â can be a mess sometimes.
First of all, there is only one rose âSummer Memoriesâ (KORuteli) bred by KORDES and I definitely agree with you and everyone selling it, that it is a (Modern) Shrub Rose reaching a height of at least 120 cm.
A little on its history: The rose was bred in 1992 and indeed first released by NOTCUTTS Nurseries under the MATTOCKS ROSES brand that they owned already back then in 2004.
In Germany we first decided having enough cream white varieties in the assortment not to introduce it, but when the rose gained popularity in England more and more requests came, so we picked it up in 2008 anyway.
Furthermore, it was sent for trials to TRELOAR ROSES in 2005, who introduced it in 2011 after being awarded at NRTG the year before.
Please find some catalogue scans attached:
NOTCUTTS: Couldnât find one from 2004, so I canât prove they have released it right away as âShrub roseâ - but closest to introduction I have from 2006/07 lists it under âshrubâ already (see chart on 3rd page)
KORDES: From our 2008/09 catalogue when we offered it first, classified as âStrauchroseâ with a height of 120 cm â by the way, also featuring prestigious âPresidentâs Trophyâ Award by RNRS that somehow never made its way onto HMFâŚ
TRELOAR: Made it on the front cover as new introduction clearly classified as âModern Shrub Roseâ
What I have to admit, sometimes as a breeder youâre not quite sure what class a rose is during evaluation period since you might have not seen a mature plant yet â so, maybe the colleagues at NORCUTTS were not sure about it either.
I also found in the 1999 application sheet for (RNRS) St Albans trails it was indeed entered (and later on awarded) as Floribunda.
Dealing with rose growers in the UK I furthermore learned over the years, that the term âshrub roseâ wasnât really popular, more considered as huge growing âpark rosesâ that were hard to sell â making certain growers denying varieties before even testing them. Something, that made me using the (unofficial) term âflori-shrubâ quite a bit to indicate it would be a plant of still moderate growth.
Another good example for this kind conflict is actually ICEBERG (KORbin), that is classified and sold in Germany and other European countries as âshrub roseâ while other parts of the world call it a âfloribundaâ.
Anyway, regarding registration with the ARS (you rely on) we have never dealt with them in this matter â for us they are not a relevant authority for variety registration they claim to be.
But Iâm willing to do you the favour anyway and reach out to them making the change from âfloribundaâ to âshrubâ â all when Iâm back from vacation in March.
All the best,
Thomas
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Hi Thomas - thank you for the information. I have updated Modern Roses to reflect Summer Memories as a Shrub rose. Kind Regards, Diane
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My name is Gary Wootton, I am an amateur rose breeder from Western Sydney, Australia, and I am trying to get some information on the description and classification of a rose that I have breed. The description and classification that I am trying to acquire is for a Ground Cover Rose, which I believe is a sub-branch of a Shrub Rose and therefore may not have an official description and classification. I wish to place the rose into National Trial Gardens (NTG), (Australia) which conducts separate trials for Ground Cover Roses, I have made enquiries, here in New South Wales and online, I have spoken to a few rosarians in my area and they agreed with me that I should contact the ARS. The best that I have been able to achieve is some unofficial descriptions. These descriptions were as follows:
30 to 95cm tall,
twice as wide as they are high,
weeping habit,
grows in small clusters, and
flowers throughout the growing season.
I am aware that as the breeder that I may place it into a classification that I believe that it rightly fits into, however, after propagating this rose, I would intend on submitting it to the NTG for assessment. I would not want the rose to be rejected due to it not being correctly classified.
The rose in question, was breed in 2023 and its parentage is Maurice Utrillo x Lemon Lace. As you are aware Maurice Utrillo is a Commercially available Hybrid Tea, with a moderate fragrance that blooms in flushes throughout the season and Lemon Lace is an Australian Bred, Mini-Flora, Shrub with a mild fragrance, and grows in small clusters.
The rose in question was initially placed in my own assessment garden, at home, on 08 September 2024, however I was forced to move it, in 10 October 2024, into a large 400mm pot as it filled its allocated position in the assessment garden and I thought that it was being restricted from growing to its fullest potential due to its spreading habit in relation to the size of the assessment garden, which is 55cm wide (thatâs all the space I have). The current dimensions of the rose in question are a height of 55cm and a width of 130cm and flowers throughout the growing season in small clusters, with a mild scent. Some photographs of the rose in question are shown below.
I hope that I have contacted the correct person, or that you might find it in your busy life to pass this to the correct person or if you could give me the details of the correct person, for me to contact.
I thank you in anticipation.
Gary Wootton
05 March 2025
Hi Gary. I appreciate all the information you have provided. I donât see the pictures however, based upon the dimensions you provided it appears consist with other ground cover roses I am familiar with and I would find it highly unlikely for the rose to be rejected based upon your classification as a Ground Cover rose. Please submit to Modern Roses and I look forward to seeing photos of it!
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