Chilli thrips stealing the joy of growing roses

[Saeed_Al-Bahhar]

Dear Rosarian friends;
I am writing to you from another part of the world and to be exact from Dubai, UAE.
Weather here these days is around 75F and will stay that way for the next 4 months (+ -). In summer it gets as high as 120F for 4 months (+ -).

Myself and my wife started an adventure of growing roses and we have started about a month back.

We planted close to 30 rose plants; some are bare roots. All were imported from europe.

Whenever new shoot sprout; i noticed cuing unhealthy leaf.
Compared the symptoms I have on my roses to those posted on the web and I was certain my roses are infected with Chilli Thrips.
We started using a home made pesticide (neem oil + liquid soap + baking soda) diluted in water according to the recommended quantities.

That did not help and all new shoots are looking sick.

I went to a local garden center and bought an insecticide that supposed to fight the Chilli Thrips amongst others.
I even checked with chat gpt if that pesticide can fight chilli thtips and got a confirming answer.
I started spraying everyday last two days.
Today I sprayed twice and I made sure i spray the bottom of the new leaves. I gave the plants a very well doses. Up/down and the insecticide smells very strongly.

Anyway tonight I took few leaves from different plants and examined them through my phone camera and to my surprise I could see the chilli thrips moving in a good health not even limbing . Some could even jump fly.

I ordered some insecticides from Amazon US but will take about two weeks to reach my place.

Questions are:
Why the chilli thrips did not die as i can see them moving on the back of the leaves on the samples I have collected two hours after generously spraying. I mean truely generously as the leaves are covered and dripping the liquid i sprayed.

That insecticide has so strong smell - i mean strong and burning feeling where it has indirectly touched my skin.

I will remove all new shoots are all are affected by that invader (Chilli Thrips)

Rosarian friends who live in Phoenix, AZ or Texas or other state where it is humid (what effective measures have you taken to fight it)?

Any suggestion what to do so my plants survive?

Once (I am hoping so) i fight it and win the battle can it come back again?

No one is growing roses in my neighborhood.

Thanks all for any feedback snd sorry the post has gotten that long.

I will try to attach a video of the insect taken about an hour back (it is night time here)

Best Regards,

[ritaperwich]

Hi, Saeed, I am not sure you have chilli thrips. Can you post a photo of the damage you are seeing. Chilli thrips are so tiny that they are not visible to the eye. But they do have a very distinctive damage…the leaves are crinkled and bronzed on the back, the buds are brown and the blooms look torched and deformed. I would suggest you stop spraying and figure out the true identity of the pest you are dealing with. Also, I am assuming it is getting cold in Dubai…chilli thrips are usually most active in the hot, summer months. Good luck! Rita

[Saeed_Al-Bahhar]

Thanks Rita.
I managed to take a video also. And I can confirm from the video it is chilli thrips.
I am not able to post the video but managed to attach photos.

Much appreciated

[Saeed_Al-Bahhar]

Here is a video i have recorded myself from one of my plants. Showing the chilli thrips

This video is recorded by taking random infected leaves. I used my iphone. Extreme close up magnifier

[Saeed_Al-Bahhar]

Thank You Rita for taking the time to respond.

Overall feeling at my end is very sad cause myself and my wife were very happy; were very encouraged to plant plants that are challenging to grow in this part of the world due to the excessive heat.
We even imported some plants from Istanbul Turkey on my last trip.

When I saw how my plants are acting and the symptoms from curling new sproutes and looking very sick; I started searching the net and comparing the symptoms my plants have to those posted on the net.
I was certain that; what my plants are having are indeed Chilli Thrips.
I even watched webinars posted on youtube addressing different diseases affecting roses.

I than took sample leaf and took an enlarged close up videos using my iphone. In my home office.
What I saw is indeed chilli thrips.
I will attach the videos I have taken.

(Attachment Video.mov is missing)

[ritaperwich]

Hi Saeed,
Unfortunately I can see from the photos that you are right. It is chilli thrips. Your post photo was confusing mainly because it was so enlarged.

I had chilli thrips for 4 or 5 years but the last 2 years I have not had these pests. I do not spray AT ALL with anything. I will explain.

I use IPM to manage pests which means that every day I inspect the garden. I live in San Diego on the coast. Our problem with these pests occurs from June to October. If I see ANYTHING remotely concerning in the leaves or buds I cut it out and bag it. I pick up all leaf and petal debris. The life cycle of this pest is 12 days from egg to adult and it pupates in the soil so sanitation is a top priority.

There are beneficial insects that eat chilli thrips. I believe with my vigilance, cutting out damage promptly and the help of beneficial, I have combatted the problem…but I still am vigilant.

Don’t give up hope. The problem with pesticides is you can kill the beneficials. And the pests can develop pesticide resistance.

Don’t give up. It may take a few years. Be ruthless and cut and bag. Also mulch your soil. I also use worm castings on my soil. Grow alyssum close to your roses. Grow other plants and not just roses. The beneficials are attracted to a diversity of plants and really like alyssum.

I am a Consulting Rosarian and I do write articles. You might find some on the internet. I have a website that explains my method of rose care if you are interested. It is www.rose-harmony.com.

Good luck! I know you can do this!
Rita

[Rosejoy]

What is the active ingredient in the pesticide you used? Have you tried Spinosad yet? You will need to rotate your chemical use to avoid resistance. You might find the YouTube ARS webinar recording by Lance Osborne, 8/24/24 about different Thrips, and a lot about Chilli thrips. Some chemicals to avoid and planting some ornamental peppers as a banker plant for beneficial insects that would attack thrips.

[Saeed_Al-Bahhar]

Thank You Rita;
Thank You Sheree;

As recommended I have stripped all my rose plants from affected leaf. Actually they all were attacked; so stripped them all.
I also packed the cut leaf in a plastic bag and to the garbage pin.

I will try to get insecticide with Spinosad.
Hopefully once my garden is free from that pest i will definitely go bio. As for now; every baby leaf is impacted.

Again thanks for the interaction, and will go through the material suggested as that what i do these days most of the time.

Saeed Al Shehhi

[hollyh2]

Saeed,

Hi There! I too have had a heavy infestation of chili thrips here in Texas these last two summers. I went ahead and bought a commercial strength insecticide that has been spinosad in it called avid. it is not cheap but I splurged because I had lost so many rose plants to the chili thrips. And I have gone ahead and planted anlyssum around in my garden as well as lots of herbs. My goal is to have one alyssum plant planted next to each rosebush as they attract the beneficial bugs that like to eat chili ropes.

I want to tell you don’t give up! I know it’s tough right now, but you will have some respite in the winter, also right after you prune your roses for spring be sure to dormant spray them. I plan to dormant spray mine twice the day I prune them and then again a week later before lots of new shoots come out, this will help kill any overwintering eggs, and insects.

The joy of growing roses is amazing and I know you and your wife will absolutely love it once you get past this tough spot! Hang in there. I am also a consulting rosarian but I am still learning when it comes to chili thrips!

Best,
Holly Hagy

[Rosejoy]

Just a clarification regarding Spinosad and Abamectin (Avid), According to Dr. Osborne, it is recommended to use Avid on roses for spider mites, but not for thrips. He recommends Ventigra for controlling chilli thrips and then purchase some beneficial insects, such as A. Swirskii, keep dry, and apply them to banker plants, such as Black Pearl ornamental pepper.

[hollyh2]

interesting! I will check I to the Ventigra the bene. insects and the black pearl pepper plant…thank you for the notes!

[Saeed_Al-Bahhar]

Thank You ALL for your comments / suggestion and of course your support.

I have ordered some anti-thrips pesticide / insecticide mainly captain jack deadbug and monterey b.t.

However those will arrive toward end of Dec to my place.

Could not wait; went to local garden shops looking for any (chemical) that has spinosad; could not find one and bought a pesticide that contains
-lambda-Cyhaothrin 9.48%; Thiamethoxam 12.6% and other ingredients 77.92%.

When asked chat gpt and the effect of those chemicals here is the reply from chat gpt

Quote

Thiamethoxam is a systemic neonicotinoid insecticide widely used in gardens to combat a variety of pests that feed on plants. Its primary mode of action is interfering with the nervous system of insects, leading to paralysis and death. In gardens, it is effective against:

Key Pests Targeted by Thiamethoxam

1. Sap-Sucking Insects

• Aphids

• Whiteflies

• Leafhoppers

• Mealybugs

• Thrips <====

2. Chewing Insects

• Caterpillars

• Beetles

• Flea beetles

3. Soil-Dwelling Insects

• Grubs

• Root maggots

4. Other Pests

• Scales

• Psyllids

How Thiamethoxam Works in Gardens

• Systemic Action: It is absorbed by plants and transported throughout their tissues, protecting leaves, stems, and roots.

Un-quote

I also keep stripping off any leaf that I see infested.

Results so far seems to be good. My roses are showing lots of new shoots that seems to be healthy.

Will attach photos of new shoots.

I still will use the other pesticides ordered from the US once they arrive.

After feeling confident chilli thrips are gone; I will provide my apology to the soil and whatever good insects has been killed by those chemicals and will work on reviving the soil.

Certainly with have Alyssum planted as those available here.

Again thanks to everybody in this community.

Saeed Al Bahhar

[cottagegardendesigns]

Rita, I now live in Washington, and have horrible black spot. I need to spray to contain it, or all my roses delay. I know down there you have rust, and just as bad. How do you control that? Thanks!

[cottagegardendesigns]

And that should say deleaf

[ritaperwich]

Hi, Leslie, I do not spray at all…no pesticides or fungicides. I try to select disease resistant varieties and I also cut off leaves as soon as I see problems. Roses that are really disease prone get dug out. Contact your local rose society and get a list of roses that do well in your location. They might also be able to give you spray advice. Good luck!

[cottagegardendesigns]

Hi Rita, Thanks so much!
I am a CR from Orange County, but now live up here. I have 70 roses. Most of the problem ones are the OGRs, but I don’t have the heart to dig them up. Ah, the life of a rose lover!
Leslie

[Rosejoy]

You might want to try some of the newer organic fungicides, for example: Arber - Bacillus amyloliquefaciens strain F727*. Some rosarians will use an antidessicant such as Wiltpruf or Cloud Cover. Even trying a Silicon based product such as GROTEK’s GRO-SILIC. I always use a seaweed based product such as the powdered Maxicrop when I spray. Lastly, there has been some control of black spot with Thyme oil. Controlling black spot organically is problematic. I have never really liked Neem oil, but many rosarians seem to use it successfully.

[cottagegardendesigns]

Thanks so much for your help. I will research those products. I mix Neem and Spinosad when I have sawfly larvae, but it is not that prevalent up here, and I never get rust.
Enjoy your garden!
Leslie